Question On Value Of Probability Of Value 1 Or 2 In Neural Network Viewer
Jul 16, 2007
Hi, all,
I am confused about the value of Probability of Value 1 or 2 (on a particular attribute value) in Neural Network viewer. E.g. the value of Probability of value 1 is actually very low (the same to the value of Probability of value 2), but why the bar which shows the strength of the probability of these two values are still so strong even stronger than other values of probability of value 1 or 2 based on other attribute values which have a much higher probability of value 1 or 2?
And how does the algorithm calculate the Probability of attribute value in nerual network by the way?
Hope my question is clear.
I am looking forward to hearing from you shortly and thanks a lot in advance.
With best regards,
Yours sincerely,
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Aug 2, 2007
I have read the threads regarding the Neural Network Viewer and I think I have a similar problem. I do have Service Pack 2 installed and I'm running the x64 version of SQL 2005.
I'm building a model from a single relational CASE table. Granted the table has many columns summarized at the customer level but there are it is well formed and has no NULL values (plenty of zero or blank values though). The only time I can get the NN Viewer to work is when I accept the attribute recommendations. It seems once I stray from these recommendation, even if there is still correlation with an attribute, I cannot view the model using the NN Viewer. My latest error message says:
"The provider could not determine the String value. For example, the row was just created, the default for the String column was not available, and the consumer had not yet set a new String value."
I get this message even when all input attributes are Continuous so I'm not sure what String column it is referring to.
Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm in a time crunch and I have sold the client on SQL Server 2005 capabilities. It's a bit embarrasing if I can't get this resolved.
-- Steve
P.S.: I don't recall having any issues with the NN Viewer prior to Service Pack 2 (although others have). Have you done regression testing to test this issue?
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Nov 17, 2006
I've successfully created and processed a very simple neural network mining model (defined against a cube). However, when I go to the model viewer in BI studio, it displays the following error:
"Execution of the managed stored procedure GetAttributeScores failed with the following error: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.Input string was not in a correct format.."
Any ideas about what's going wrong? This is with SQL Server 2005 SP1.
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Feb 19, 2008
Hi!
I bought the book €œData Mining with SQL Server 2005€?, but I can€™t find the solution to a problem I have.
I want to retrieve from C# the logistic regression Attribute Value (AV) Scores for the Logistic Regression Algorithm. I can see the Scores from the Microsoft Logistic Regression Viewer (the same of Neural Network Viewer), but I cannot retrieve them via DMX, OLEDB or similar.
Otherwise, is there a formula that I can use to compute that score from the coefficient, support, or probability values of the Attribute Value pair (I can read this values from DMX)?
I can access to them via DMX:
NODE_DISTRIBUTION -> SUPPORT and PROBABILITY ATTRIBUTE_VALUE...
with a query like
SELECT FLATTENED (SELECT ATTRIBUTE_NAME, ATTRIBUTE_VALUE FROM NODE_DISTRIBUTION WHERE VALUETYPE = ... ) FROM [MyModel].CONTENT WHERE NODE_TYPE ....
Thanks in advance
Regards,
Marco
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Nov 24, 2006
Greetings,
I have a mining structure that I am using to perform a text-mining
classification task. The mining structure contains three models: a
decision tree, a naive bayes and a neural network.
Both the decision tree and the naive bayes models process without
any problems, but I am having significant difficulties with the neural
network model.
Initially when I processed the model, processing would fail altogether with the following error message:
"Memory error: Allocation failure : Not enough storage is available to process this command"
This was remedied by taking the steps prescribed in
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917885 (I upgraded to SQL 2005 SP1 and
applied all available hotfixes listed in
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918222/). This got me to the point
where the model (seemingly) processed correctly after restricting the
MAXIMUM_INPUT_ATTRIBUTES to a relatively low number. So after
processing, I went to try and browse the neural network model and view
the lift chart...
<error>
"Execution of the managed stored procedure GetAttributeScores
failed with the following error: Exception has been thrown by the
target of an invocation.Input string was not in a correct format.."
</error>
(see http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=935340&SiteID=17)
Also when I would attempt to view the lift chart and the
classification matrix the queries would time out with the following
error message:
<error>
XML for Analysis parser: The XML for Analysis request timed out before it was completed.
Execution of the managed stored procedure
GenerateLiftTableUsingDatasource failed with the following error:
Exception has been thrown by the target of an
invocation.Microsoft::AnalysisServices::AdomdServer::AdomdException.
</error>
Now, my poking around on Technet lead me to believe that this issue
could finally be resolved by uprading to the CTP release of SQL server
2005 SP2. Now I am still encountering problems. When I go to browse the
model in the Neural Network Viewer, I see the correct drop down menus
to select attributes and attribute values in the "Input" and "Output"
panes but I see no data displayed in the "Variables" pane at the
bottom.
Interestingly, while I cannot view the model contents in the
graphical viewer, the mining model contents viewer reveals model
contents that look to be pretty normal for a trained neural network.
Attempts to view the lift chart time out with the error message:
<error>
XML for Analysis parser: The XML for Analysis request timed out before it was completed.
Execution of the managed stored procedure
GenerateLiftTableUsingDatasource failed with the following error:
Exception has been thrown by the target of an
invocation.Microsoft::AnalysisServices::AdomdServer::AdomdException.
</error>
and when I run predictions against the trained NN model in the
"Mining Model Prediction" pane it predicts the same value for every
case in the testing set.
Any thoughts?
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Aug 10, 2006
I have two problems while trying to train a neural network.
My network have 10 continuous input ad 1 discrete output (3 states)
The parameters I chose are :
-Hidden node ratio 10
-Holdout percentage 10
The others are default.
First,when i train it thanks to BI dev studio, the training is very fast (less than 5 seconds) and the results compared with the training set are bad (at least 30% of errors). Is there a way to improve the training (I don't care about the time required to train if it works)?
Second, I decided to train the network using SQL server management studio and I get this error which I can't understand : "Les connexions ad hoc telles que spécifiées dans des clauses OPENROWSET ne peuvent pas être utilisées sur ce serveur". Translated it may be something like "this server can't use ad hoc connections such as specified in OPENROWSET".
My query is :
INSERT INTO MINING model [Associations Learn2]([From Requete1],[From Requete2],
[Keywords1],[Keywords2],[Nb Apparition1],[Nb Apparition2],[Nombre Requete Distincte],[Probabilite],[Titre1],[Titre2],[Type],[Uid])
OPENROWSET
('SQLNCLI.1','Data Source=STAG-XP-EDITION;user=sa;password=***;Initial Catalog=OpenFind_StockagePreNeurone',
'SELECT [From Requete1],[From Requete2],
[Keywords1],[Keywords2],[Nb Apparition1],[Nb Apparition2],[Nombre Requete Distincte],
[Probabilite],[Titre1],[Titre2],[Type],[Uid] FROM associationsLearn2'
)
Could someone explain me the error?
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Jun 10, 2007
General data mining books talk about NN taking inputs which are between -1 and 1. Even Jamie's book says that's what it generally receives. I don't think this is a requirement for the Microsoft algorithm, but I wanted to ask if it was a best practice. If you're feeding it something like home values where 99% of homes are under $1 million you can use some normalization trick so that mansions don't skew the data. But if your data doesn't need such normalization, is there any need to normalize it to the -1 to 1 range?
Also, is the Microsoft algorithm sensitive to the relative size of different inputs? For instance, if InputA is home size (500-50,000 square feet) and InputB is months unoccupied (0-24 months), does that cause the Microsoft NN to weigh home size more heavily?
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Jun 9, 2006
Hello , using MS Visual studio 2005 , I deployed sql table with NN algorithm , it successfuly deployed . But when I tabbed to "Mining Model Viewer" it gave me the following error :
The following system error occurred: Invalid procedure call or argument.
Execution of the managed stored procedure GetAttributeScores failed with the following error: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.Microsoft::AnalysisServices::AdomdServer::AdomdException.
what can I do ?
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Aug 1, 2006
Hello there,
I'm working with Analysis sevices 2005 developer edition. Looking through the documentation i becomes apperent that the NN algorithm takes 255 input attributes by default. This can be changed to any integer value, OK....
My problem is that I want to feed the network with 40000 input variables. In order to do so, I will have to do a select:
SELECT fld1, fld2, ...... fld39999, fld40000
FROM tblSometable
However, this is not possible, as the books online describes it is only possible to return 4096 columns from a select statement.
Question : How do I populate a NN in AS2005, with nmore than 4096 inputs ?!
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Apr 12, 2007
In Neural Network model, is that a way to have table column as predictable?
Mary
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Jul 16, 2007
Hi, all,
What can we tell from the lift value of the attribute value in Neural Network? (any so-called threshold of this lift value which identifies whether or not an attribute value is important or whatever to the selecte output attribute value?) I mean with lift value of a particular value, when we describe the characteristics of a segmentaion with Neural network, what can we actually describe it?
I just dont know what can we desribe this for the segmentation by neural network viewer?
I am looking forward to hearing from you shortly and thansk a lot.
With best regards,
Yours sincerely,
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Jun 26, 2006
I am in the process of training a Neural Networks, which could take significant iterations in the process of getting trained. While using other tools like I can visually see the convergence (in terms of error for the model). Is there a way to see any progress while training while using Analysis Server - Neural Network training? It would be useful to see the accuracy, interation number and timeout while in the process of training etc...
Thanks
Rajeev Gupta
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May 21, 2007
Hello,
Say that I have 100,000 attributes/feature selections for my SQL Server Neural Network Algorithm.
Customer Attr1 Attr2 Attr3 ..... Atr100000
==============================
Jack 1 0 1 ..... 1
Sam 0 1 1 ...... 0
Mary 1 1 0 ...... 1
Knowing the fact I can't fit those info on a table and SQL Server's Neural Network does not support table prediction . What's an alternative to use Neural Network in SQL Server 2005 to solve my problem?
Please assist!
Mary
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Apr 13, 2007
Hi,
I am using Reporting Services in the following way. The application implements a three tier Architecture viz Web Server, Application Server and Database Server. Reporting Services 2005 is installed on the Database Server.
The application uses ReportViewer Control which is part of an ASPX page deployed on the Web Server. For ReportViewer Control to fetch data from Reporting Services using RS API, we have to set ReportServerUrl and Report Path. In this scenario, the web server cannot communicate to the database server directly. The web server is in the DMZ and it can only communicate with the Application Server which is in a separate Network.
How can I use Report Viewer Control to fetch data from Reporting Services which is on the Database Server.
Thanks & Regards,
Rajiv
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Apr 12, 2007
hi,
i have a exercise using association datamining
my database have 350 records,
i use 90 records for datamining and it release some rules which i choose on top of mSOLAP_NODE_SCORE,
but when i use select statement to check my result i have 1 records, the same as my result, and 5 records not true;
for example:
rules A=a,B=b-> C=c
select * from <my_table> where A='a' and B='b' and C='c'; ==>1 record return
select * from <my_table> where A='a' and B='b' and C<>'c'; ==>5 records return
C with 3 values c1,c2,c
with the second statement C includes 2 c1 and 3 c2
i don't understand how they work.
i want to choose some best rules can present my database.
how can i choose importance and probability to get best rules.
with database have 90 records and a database have 350 records which values i should use for minimum_probability, Minimum_Support, Minimum_importance...
when i choose rules i should choose on importance or probability.
thanks for your help
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Dec 13, 2006
Hello,
I installed the bike buyer example and i am learning the DMX language. Now i wrote the following query (using MS decision trees):
SELECT
T.[Last Name],
[Bike Buyer],
PredictProbability(Predict([Bike Buyer])) AS [Probability]
From
[v Target Mail]
PREDICTION JOIN
OPENQUERY
(....... And so on..)
Now the result is surprising to me. In the resulttabel all the probabilities are equal.
Bike Buyer Probability
1 0.99994590500919611
0 0.99994590500919611
0 0.99994590500919611
0 0.99994590500919611
0 0.99994590500919611
1 0.99994590500919611
and so on.
Now i am wondering what predictProbability means. I thought that PredictProbability meant the probability that the prediction is correct. Now all the probabilities are the same and the input is different. Can somebody tell me what PredictProbability means or am I using it wrong?
Thanx in advance,
Joris Valkonet
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Mar 14, 2008
I have a DMX query like this:
Code Snippet
select * from (
select flattened(*) from (
select att1, topcount(predict([Trans Predictor Unified], INCLUDE_STATISTICS), $Adjustedprobability, 7) as predictedstuff
from [Trans Predictor Model]
prediction join
SHAPE {openquery(DMSCS, 'select distinct CAST(att2 as nvarchar(100)) att1 from DMSCS.dbo.CartProducts order by att1 ')}
append
({openquery(DMSCS, 'select CAST(att2 as nvarchar(100)) att1 , att4, att5 as att3
from DMSCS.dbo.CartProducts order by att1 ')
}
relate [att1] to [att1]) as [Trans Predictor Unified]
as SHAPEQ
on [Trans Predictor Model].[Trans Predictor Unified].att3 = SHAPEQ.[Trans Predictor Unified].att3
) as s
) as t where [predictedstuff.$AdjustedProbability] > 0.5
It's working well. I would like to modify one thing. I would like to chang ethe constant in the where condition, so that it is configurable. That is, I would like to store the constant somewhere (SSAS or relational SQL). I was reading the DMX reference, but it doesn't provide much details about the where's "condition expression". And I looked at a document called "OLE DB for Data Mining Specification version 1.0" of July 2000, which does have in Appendix B the SELECT grammar. There it has
<expression> -> <value>
[...]
| ( SELECT <expression_list> FROM <expression> <where_clause>
[...]
<where_clause> -> WHERE <expression>
If I change the end to
where [predictedstuff.$AdjustedProbability] > (select 0.5 from [Trans Predictor Model] )
, however, just to force some form of query there I get a message saying "The specified column was not found in the context".
I'm running SQL Server 2005.
thanks,
Gustavo
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Jun 28, 2007
I am working on a text mining application wherein I need to detect unusual/anomalous sentences in text. Certain sentences, that I know occur very frequently, are given a likelihood of 0.2 by PredictCaseLikelihood. Other sentences that are just as frequent get a much higher likelihood (>0.9). I am using the NORMALIZED option. The only significant difference between these sentences is their length. The one with the lower likelihood has only 2 words in it, whereas the one with the higher likelihood has more than 10 words. The problem is that the shorter sentences end up being interpreted as anomalous, when in fact they are'nt. Any suggestions?
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Jul 26, 2007
How is the value of Prediction Probability calculated in the context of decision trees?
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Aug 19, 2007
Dear All,
In a data mining model with decision tree algorithm. For example I have the following train case table:
StudentID, IQ,EQ, IsPass.
I put all data in the table into the microsoft decision tree datamining model
StudentID is the key for datamining model
IsPass is prediction only data
IQ, EQ is the input.
1. How can I make a DMX selection to find out all NODE_UNIQUE_NAME with probability of IsPass >0.7.
2. How can I make a DMX selection to find out all the StudentID which belongs to the criteria defined by the Node?
Thanks and regards
Tony Chun Tung Siu
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Nov 24, 2006
Hi, all experts here,
Thank you very much for your kind attention.
I am having a question about the node_distribution.PRABABILITY. Some of the attribute values though have a small number of support for the specific node, but why it has a big node_distribution.probability even greater than 1? How can the node_distribution.PROBABILITY be greater than 1? How dose SQL Server 2005 data mining engine calculate the node_distribution.PRPBABILITY for its Clustering algorithm? Really confused and need guidance for that.
Thank you very much for your help.
With best regards,
Yours sincerely,
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Nov 24, 2006
Hi, all here,
Thank you very much for your kind attention.
I dont understand another problem within my mining model. When I query the mining model content ,finding that the same attribute_value have different support and probability for the same node within my clustering model. Why is that? Really confused. And really need help for that.
Thank you very much in advance for your help.
With best regards,
Yours sincerely,
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Sep 15, 2006
Hi,
Would anyone be able to provide a reference paper on the neural net algorithm implemented in SQL Server 2005 to better understand how it works?
Thanxs for any info.
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Feb 6, 2007
I created a test table (name - "Nset") with the columns:
id (int), n1 (float), n2 (float), n3 (float) and c1 (varchar).
Then filled a table the followings information:
id n1 n2 n3 c1
1 0,1 0,1 0,6 one
2 0,2 0,1 0,5 one
3 0,7 0,5 0,1 two
4 0,4 0,9 0,3 two
5 0,5 0,1 0,5 three
And created a neural network with tuning by default. "id"-field is the key. n1, n2 and n3 are inputs. c1 - predict.
Then i tryed predict query, like:
SELECT
PREDICT([Nset].[c1])
FROM
[Nset]
NATURAL PREDICTION JOIN
(SELECT 0,5 AS [n1], 0,1 AS [n2], 0,5 AS [n3]) AS t
The result is "three". This is correct. And some other tests appeared correct.
But, when I filled the column c1 with numerical values (one = 1, two=2, three=3) and changed type to int, a predict query left off to work correctly.
Previous query return 4.
And other tests showed that a value returned large on unit.
Is this correct?
Thanks.
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Jan 17, 2007
1) Scaling of Inputs
Is the standarization of the inputs done automatically when running the Microsoft Neural Network algorithm or I should be transforming the variables before running the algorithm?
2) Predicted Probabilities
How do I create a table with the actual predicted probabilities of the model for each observation? In the Mining Model Prediction tab the output would be either 0 or 1, my question is how can I obtain the actual value of the estimated probability?
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Jun 29, 2006
I am getting negative predictions (continuous) from a neural network model that has been trained on data that only contains positive values or zeros (no nulls).
Is there a setting that can limit the lower end of the output range to zero?
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Jun 13, 2007
I am trying to get familiar with Microsoft neural networks to predict property prices. The results are better but I wanted to amend the default parameters passed to the neural network.
So on MINING MODEL TAB when I right click and go into SET ALGORITHM PARAMETERS, I can't see any parameters there, if I try to enter a parameter for example MAXIMUM_STATES and process the model I get the following error message
"The 'maximum_states' data mining parameter is not valid for the 'My Model' model"
I also added a decision tree model to the same structure and when go into SET ALGORITHM PARAMETERS pop menu it comes with many pre populated parameters with default values.
My question is that why I am unable to add parameters to the NEURAL NETWORK and why it does not come with pre populated parameters like DECISION TREES.
Your help will be much appreciated.
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May 9, 2006
I have some accounting data, with some transaction attributes and amounts.
I'm using Decision Trees to try and predict the next month's amount for certain combinations of attributes.
I've tried two different structures for the model:
A: one with 9 discrete text input attributes.
B: And another with the same 9 attributes + a avarage Amount for all combinations of the nine attribute for every transaction.
When i've processed them and look in the dependency network, it says that the strongest link for the structure A is attribute "1".
And for the second its the avarage-Amount attribute.
Okey, that seems fine, but the second strongest link in structure B is attribute "2".
Shouldn't it be attribute 1 like in structure A?
Second question, if I run the same data in a Neural Network model, the prediction becomes much worst then the decision tree.
I get many predictions that are negative values even though all training data contains positiv values.
The StDev becomes the same for every row also..
What am I doing wrong with that one. I have alot of transactions and a read somewhere that a Neural Network should work better than a decision tree in a case similar to mine.
The score in the "Lift chart" for the Neural Network model becomes 0,00 and for Decision Trees with the same data I get around 110.
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Jun 15, 2007
Wanted some candid feedback on this idea. Everyone knows that neural nets are a black box in terms of the weights and such it uses. The best you can do is to get an idea how "sensitive" the NN is to each input. I don't know of any example code that's out there to help you do this in an automated manner (correct me if I'm wrong) so I'm thinking about writing a sproc that would help with this task.
Basically, the sproc would take in the mining model's name and the key of one case. Let's say the case and its attributes are:
ZipCode=93901 (the case key)
MedianIncome=99,098
PopulationDensity=1234
AvgTemperature=74.3
Predict likelihood to respond to an offer
For that case, it would go through an iteration per input. First it would test the first input, MedianIncome. It would run 100 predictions using the input values listed above. All the inputs would remain the same throughout except for MedianIncome where it would try out the complete range of that input. Based upon how much the prediction changes, you would have an idea how sensitive the model is to MedianIncome. Then it would move on to the next input and do the same.
When it's done testing each input, it could spit out a dataset listing all the inputs in order of how sensitive the model is to them and a few other stats like min and max prediction.
Thoughts? Improvements? Alternatives?
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Sep 30, 2004
Hello all,
We have a Windows 2003 Web Edition server serving a site through IIS. It connects to a Windows 2003 Standard Edition server running SQL 2000 SP3a.
This site receives the following error as seen in the topic:
[DBNETLIB][ConnectionRead (recv()).]General network error. Check your network documentation.
We've configured the server network utility to only allow TCP/IP connections. The connection string for the site is as follows:
<%
' FileName="Connection_ado_conn_string.htm"
' Type="ADO"
' HTTP="false"
' Catalog=""
' Schema=""
MM_connSpankMSSQL_STRING = "Provider=sqloledb;Data Source=SERVER_IP,1433;Network Library=DBMSSOCN;Initial Catalog=ourmaindb_1;User ID=ourmaindb_1;Password=hotcookies;"
%>
Any ideas or tips on solving this issue? We've noticed it is due to larger queries as smaller ones do work with no problems.
The servers are behind a BSD box running iptables, has 1433,1434 along with standard web ports wide open. Anything outbound is allowed.
Some further testing via ODBC on the IIS server improved things. No more connection pooling for the SQL Server driver allows for 1/3 of the query to run. Still 2/3s of it doesn't show up, and that general network error message appears.
Should have 330 rows if it works right.
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May 19, 2004
Hi
While running a DTS, many times the error message: "[DBNETLIB][ConnetionWrite (WrapperWrite()).]General network error. Check your network documentation." appears.
Does somebody knows why?
I am running the DTS from a computer (not the server where the DTS is stored) and it is connected without any problem when this happens.
Thanks!!
Regards
Lautaro - Argentina.
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Oct 4, 2007
Hi Every one,
I am using .Net 1.1 for my web application.
And my database server is SQL Server 2005.
My application is running fine, as i can login to it and also able to view pages. But when i open Order management(having 3K records) its give me error,
General Network Error. Check your network documentation
I have also searched many articles and tried following solutions but nothing working
- connectiontimeout = 0, max pool size = 7500/100, pooling = false
- SSL disabling enforce security false as mentioned in microsoft kb article.
And there's nothing any issue with hardware/firewall as my application's login and other forms are working fine(which use same database with same connection string)
Can any one please help me to solve this error?
With Regards,
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May 26, 2007
Hi We have a written a error log in Global.asax. which capture below mentioned error in the prodcution server. Same applications is working fine in some locations and some loactions we are getting the error.Any body knows why this error is occurs.Any body knows why this error is occurs. Error Message:General network error. Check your network documentation.Stack Trace: at System.Data.SqlClient.SqlInternalConnection.OpenAndLogin() at System.Data.SqlClient.SqlInternalConnection..ctor(SqlConnection connection, SqlConnectionString connectionOptions) at System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection.Open() at datalayer.sqldb.Execute(String ProcedureName, SqlParameter[] Parameters) at lms.User.GetUserDetails(String strUserid)ITs at LMS.Login.w_btn_Login_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) at System.Web.UI.WebControls.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e) at System.Web.UI.WebControls.Button.System.Web.UI.IPostBackEventHandler.RaisePostBackEvent(String eventArgument) at System.Web.UI.Page.RaisePostBackEvent(IPostBackEventHandler sourceControl, String eventArgument) at System.Web.UI.Page.RaisePostBackEvent(NameValueCollection postData)
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