Trigger Permission Problems
Aug 29, 2002
I'm having some difficulty with permissions.
A program executes a stored procedure using windows authentication.
The stored procedure inserts into a table.
The trigger handling inserts for that table also inserts some of the information into a different table, in a different db, on a different server.
My problem is that when the trigger tries the insert, the permissions are lost, the server reports back a failed login for NT AUTHORITY/NT ANONYMOUS.
Both machines have identical logins and permissions.
Has anybody come across this before?
I've tried this with the sa account and everything works, but I need windows integrated security.
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Jul 9, 2009
I created a trigger that will throw a message whenever a new record is inserted in the table. Now I want to remove this trigger. I am not able to remove.
CREATE TRIGGER prod_culture_trig ON Production.Culture
AFTER INSERT
AS
SELECT 'New culture entry added';
I get the following error message:
Msg 2714, Level 16, State 2, Procedure prod_oulture_trig, Line 4
There is already an object named 'prod_oulture_trig' in the database.
This error confirms that we have the trigger already existing. Now I run the code
DROP TRIGGER prod_oulture_trig;
I get the following error message -
Msg 3701, Level 11, State 5, Line 1
Cannot drop the trigger 'prod_culture_trig', because it does not exist or you do not have permission.
What permission do I require? This is a test database on my computer with me as the administrator.
How to remove this trigger?
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Dec 13, 2005
I have an application that uses Integrated Windows authentication. My Web.config looks like below
<add key="dbconnection" value=" server=XXX;Initial Catalog=XXX;persist security info=False;Integrated Security=SSPI;Pooling=true" />
When users try to access my application, they get the below error:
Execute permission denied on object 'SprocName', database 'DBNAME',Owner,'dbo'
The Only way I could get rid off the error is if I set DBO permissions for the user group on the databse.
Can someone suggest how to set up a security group with the ‘necessary’ permissions on SQL SERVER (ie read,write execute Sproc etc) and not too many extra ones, like DBO.
Thanks,
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Sep 19, 2007
SQL Server 2005 anomoly?
In SQL Server Management Studio I granted specific permissions to user "A" to do Select, Insert, Update, Delete on Table "B" -
When I logged on as User "A" and attempted the Insert imto table "B" I got the following error:
"Insert Permission Denied on Table B, Database C, Schema dbo"
Is this a problem with the dbo schema?
Then I went back and created a stored proccedure "D" with the exact same Insert statement inside the procedure. I granted User "A" execute permission on the stored procedure "D".
I then logged on as User A and executed Stored Procedure "D". No Problem - stored procedure executed fine with the Insert.
I attempted the Insert statement again - straight SQL - as User "A" and got the same error as above ("Insert Permission Denied.....")
Strange behavior - cannot do a SQL. Insert even though user has permissions but can execute a store procedure with the same Insert statement.
What gives?
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Nov 14, 2006
Hey,
I'm new to this whole SQL Server 2005 thing as well as database design and I've read up on various ways I can integrate business constraints into my database. I'm not sure which way applies to me, but I could use a helping hand in the right direction.
A quick explanation of the various tables I'm dealing with:
WBS - the Work Breakdown Structure, for example: A - Widget 1, AA - Widget 1 Subsystem 1, and etc.
Impacts - the Risk or Opportunity impacts for the weights of a part/assembly. (See Assemblies have Impacts below)
Allocations - the review of the product in question, say Widget 1, in terms of various weight totals, including all parts. Example - September allocation, Initial Demo allocation, etc. Mostly used for weight history and trending
Parts - There are hundreds of Parts which will eventually lead to thousands. Each part has a WBS element. [Seems redundant, but parts are managed in-house, and WBS elements are cross-company and issued by the Government]
Parts have Allocations - For weight history and trending (see Allocations). Example, Nut 17 can have a September 1st allocation, a September 5th allocation, etc.
Assemblies - Parts are assemblies by themselves and can belong to multiple assemblies. Now, there can be multiple parts on a product, say, an unmanned ground vehicle (UGV), and so those parts can belong to a higher "assembly" [For example, there can be 3 Nut 17's (lower assembly) on Widget 1 Subsystem 2 (higher assembly) and 4 more on Widget 1 Subsystem 5, etc.]. What I'm concerned about is ensuring that the weight roll-ups are accurate for all of the assemblies.
Assemblies have Impacts - There is a risk and opportunity impact setup modeled into this design to allow for a risk or opportunity to be marked on a per-assembly level. That's all this table represents.
A part is allocated a weight and then assigned to an assembly. The Assemblies table holds this hierarchical information - the lower assembly and the higher one, both of which are Parts entries in the [Parts have Allocations] table.
Therefore, to ensure proper weight roll ups in the [Parts have Allocations] table on a per part-basis, I would like to check for any inserts, updates, deletes on both the [Parts have Allocations] table as well as the [Assemblies] table and then re-calculate the weight roll up for every assembly. Now, I'm not sure if this is a huge performance hog, but I do need to keep all the information as up-to-date and as accurate as possible. As such, I'm not sure which method is even correct, although it seems an AFTER DML trigger is in order (from what I've gathered thus far). Keep in mind, this trigger needs to go through and check every WBS or Part and then go through and check all of it's associated assemblies and then ensure the weights are correct by re-summing the weights listed.
If you need the design or create script (table layout), please let me know.
Thanks.
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Jul 20, 2005
Are there any limitations or gotchas to updating the same table whichfired a trigger from within the trigger?Some example code below. Hmmm.... This example seems to be workingfine so it must be something with my specific schema/code. We'reworking on running a SQL trace but if anybody has any input, fireaway.Thanks!create table x(Id int,Account varchar(25),Info int)GOinsert into x values ( 1, 'Smith', 15);insert into x values ( 2, 'SmithX', 25);/* Update trigger tu_x for table x */create trigger tu_xon xfor updateasbegindeclare @TriggerRowCount intset @TriggerRowCount = @@ROWCOUNTif ( @TriggerRowCount = 0 )returnif ( @TriggerRowCount > 1 )beginraiserror( 'tu_x: @@ROWCOUNT[%d] Trigger does not handle @@ROWCOUNT[color=blue]> 1 !', 17, 127, @TriggerRowCount) with seterror, nowait[/color]returnendupdate xsetAccount = left( i.Account, 24) + 'X',Info = i.Infofrom deleted, inserted iwhere x.Account = left( deleted.Account, 24) + 'X'endupdate x set Account = 'Blair', Info = 999 where Account = 'Smith'
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Dec 5, 2006
This Audit Trigger is Generic (i.e. non-"Table Specific") attach it to any tabel and it should work. Be sure and create the 'Audit' table first though.
The following code write audit entries to a Table called
'Audit'
with columns
'ActionType' //varchar
'TableName' //varchar
'PK' //varchar
'FieldName' //varchar
'OldValue' //varchar
'NewValue' //varchar
'ChangeDateTime' //datetime
'ChangeBy' //varchar
using System;
using System.Data;
using System.Data.SqlClient;
using Microsoft.SqlServer.Server;
public partial class Triggers
{
//A Generic Trigger for Insert, Update and Delete Actions on any Table
[Microsoft.SqlServer.Server.SqlTrigger(Name = "AuditTrigger", Event = "FOR INSERT, UPDATE, DELETE")]
public static void AuditTrigger()
{
SqlTriggerContext tcontext = SqlContext.TriggerContext; //Trigger Context
string TName; //Where we store the Altered Table's Name
string User; //Where we will store the Database Username
DataRow iRow; //DataRow to hold the inserted values
DataRow dRow; //DataRow to how the deleted/overwritten values
DataRow aRow; //Audit DataRow to build our Audit entry with
string PKString; //Will temporarily store the Primary Key Column Names and Values here
using (SqlConnection conn = new SqlConnection("context connection=true"))//Our Connection
{
conn.Open();//Open the Connection
//Build the AuditAdapter and Mathcing Table
SqlDataAdapter AuditAdapter = new SqlDataAdapter("SELECT * FROM Audit WHERE 1=0", conn);
DataTable AuditTable = new DataTable();
AuditAdapter.FillSchema(AuditTable, SchemaType.Source);
SqlCommandBuilder AuditCommandBuilder = new SqlCommandBuilder(AuditAdapter);//Populates the Insert command for us
//Get the inserted values
SqlDataAdapter Loader = new SqlDataAdapter("SELECT * from INSERTED", conn);
DataTable inserted = new DataTable();
Loader.Fill(inserted);
//Get the deleted and/or overwritten values
Loader.SelectCommand.CommandText = "SELECT * from DELETED";
DataTable deleted = new DataTable();
Loader.Fill(deleted);
//Retrieve the Name of the Table that currently has a lock from the executing command(i.e. the one that caused this trigger to fire)
SqlCommand cmd = new SqlCommand("SELECT object_name(resource_associated_entity_id) FROM
ys.dm_tran_locks WHERE request_session_id = @@spid and resource_type = 'OBJECT'", conn);
TName = cmd.ExecuteScalar().ToString();
//Retrieve the UserName of the current Database User
SqlCommand curUserCommand = new SqlCommand("SELECT system_user", conn);
User = curUserCommand.ExecuteScalar().ToString();
//Adapted the following command from a T-SQL audit trigger by Nigel Rivett
//http://www.nigelrivett.net/AuditTrailTrigger.html
SqlDataAdapter PKTableAdapter = new SqlDataAdapter(@"SELECT c.COLUMN_NAME
from INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLE_CONSTRAINTS pk ,
INFORMATION_SCHEMA.KEY_COLUMN_USAGE c
where pk.TABLE_NAME = '" + TName + @"'
and CONSTRAINT_TYPE = 'PRIMARY KEY'
and c.TABLE_NAME = pk.TABLE_NAME
and c.CONSTRAINT_NAME = pk.CONSTRAINT_NAME", conn);
DataTable PKTable = new DataTable();
PKTableAdapter.Fill(PKTable);
switch (tcontext.TriggerAction)//Switch on the Action occuring on the Table
{
case TriggerAction.Update:
iRow = inserted.Rows[0];//Get the inserted values in row form
dRow = deleted.Rows[0];//Get the overwritten values in row form
PKString = PKStringBuilder(PKTable, iRow);//the the Primary Keys and There values as a string
foreach (DataColumn column in inserted.Columns)//Walk through all possible Table Columns
{
if (!iRow[column.Ordinal].Equals(dRow[column.Ordinal]))//If value changed
{
//Build an Audit Entry
aRow = AuditTable.NewRow();
aRow["ActionType"] = "U";//U for Update
aRow["TableName"] = TName;
aRow["PK"] = PKString;
aRow["FieldName"] = column.ColumnName;
aRow["OldValue"] = dRow[column.Ordinal].ToString();
aRow["NewValue"] = iRow[column.Ordinal].ToString();
aRow["ChangeDateTime"] = DateTime.Now.ToString();
aRow["ChangedBy"] = User;
AuditTable.Rows.InsertAt(aRow, 0);//Insert the entry
}
}
break;
case TriggerAction.Insert:
iRow = inserted.Rows[0];
PKString = PKStringBuilder(PKTable, iRow);
foreach (DataColumn column in inserted.Columns)
{
//Build an Audit Entry
aRow = AuditTable.NewRow();
aRow["ActionType"] = "I";//I for Insert
aRow["TableName"] = TName;
aRow["PK"] = PKString;
aRow["FieldName"] = column.ColumnName;
aRow["OldValue"] = null;
aRow["NewValue"] = iRow[column.Ordinal].ToString();
aRow["ChangeDateTime"] = DateTime.Now.ToString();
aRow["ChangedBy"] = User;
AuditTable.Rows.InsertAt(aRow, 0);//Insert the Entry
}
break;
case TriggerAction.Delete:
dRow = deleted.Rows[0];
PKString = PKStringBuilder(PKTable, dRow);
foreach (DataColumn column in inserted.Columns)
{
//Build and Audit Entry
aRow = AuditTable.NewRow();
aRow["ActionType"] = "D";//D for Delete
aRow["TableName"] = TName;
aRow["PK"] = PKString;
aRow["FieldName"] = column.ColumnName;
aRow["OldValue"] = dRow[column.Ordinal].ToString();
aRow["NewValue"] = null;
aRow["ChangeDateTime"] = DateTime.Now.ToString();
aRow["ChangedBy"] = User;
AuditTable.Rows.InsertAt(aRow, 0);//Insert the Entry
}
break;
default:
//Do Nothing
break;
}
AuditAdapter.Update(AuditTable);//Write all Audit Entries back to AuditTable
conn.Close(); //Close the Connection
}
}
//Helper function that takes a Table of the Primary Key Column Names and the modified rows Values
//and builds a string of the form "<PKColumn1Name=Value1>,PKColumn2Name=Value2>,......"
public static string PKStringBuilder(DataTable primaryKeysTable, DataRow valuesDataRow)
{
string temp = String.Empty;
foreach (DataRow kColumn in primaryKeysTable.Rows)//for all Primary Keys of the Table that is being changed
{
temp = String.Concat(temp, String.Concat("<", kColumn[0].ToString(), "=", valuesDataRow[kColumn[0].ToString)].ToString(), ">,"));
}
return temp;
}
}
The trick was getting the Table Name and the Primary Key Columns.
I hope this code is found useful.
Comments and Suggestion will be much appreciated.
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Oct 30, 2007
Table 1
First_Name
Middle_Name
Surname
John
Ian
Lennon
Mike
Buffalo
Tyson
Tom
Finney
Jones
Table 2
ID
F
M
S
DOB
1
Athony
Harold
Wilson
24/4/67
2
Margaret
Betty
Thathcer
1/1/1808
3
John
Ian
Lennon
2/2/1979
4
Mike
Buffalo
Tyson
3/4/04
5
Tom
Finney
Jones
1/1/2000
I want to be able to create a trigger that updates table 2 when a row is inserted into table 1. However I€™m not sure how to increment the ID in table 2 or to update only the row that has been inserted.
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Feb 5, 2008
A
ID
Name
1
Joe
2
Fred
3
Ian
4
Bill
B
ID
1
4
I want to be able to create a trigger so that when a row is inserted into table A by a specific user then the ID will appear in table B. Is it possible to find out the login id of the user inserting a row?
I believe the trigger should look something like this:
create trigger test_trigger
on a
for insert
as
insert into b(ID)
select i.id
from inserted i
where
--specific USER
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Mar 18, 2008
how to create new CLR trigger from existing T-Sql Trigger Thanks in advance
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Jul 23, 2005
When a row gets modified and it invokes a trigger, we would like to beable to update the row that was modified inside the trigger. This is(basically) how we are doing it now:CREATE TRIGGER trTBL ON TBLFOR UPDATE, INSERT, DELETEasupdate TBLset fld = 'value'from inserted, TBLwhere inserted.id= TBL.id....This work fine but it seems like it could be optimized. Clearly we arehaving to scan the entire table again to update the row. But shouldn'tthe trigger already know which row invoked it. Do we have to scan thetable again for this row or is their some syntax that allows us toupdate the row that invoked the trigger. If not, why. It seems likethis would be a fairly common task. Thanks.
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Jul 20, 2005
Salve, non riesco a disabilitare un trigger su sqlserver nè da queryanalyzer, nè da enterprise manager.In pratica tal cosa riuscivo a farla in Oracle con TOAD, mentre qui nonriesco.Mi interessa disattivarlo senza cancellarlo per poi riattivarlo al bisognosenza rilanciare lo script di creazione.Grazie a tuttiHi I need to disable a DB trigger and I'm not able to do this neither withquery analyzer, neither with enterprise manager.I remeber this job was quite simple using TOAd in Oracle.I'm interested in making it disabled not delete it, without run creationscript.Thanks a lot to everybody.
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May 30, 2008
Hi,
I am not sure if this is the right forum to post this question.
I run an update statement like "Update mytable set status='S' " on the SQL 2005 management Studio.
When I run "select * from mytable" for a few seconds all status = "S". After a few seconds all status turn to "H".
This is a behaviour when you have an update trigger for the table. But I don't see any triggers under this table.
What else would cause the database automatically change my update?
Could there be any other place I should look for an update trigger on this table?
Thanks,
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Sep 20, 2007
Hi all in .net I've created an application that allows creation of triggers, i also want to allow the deletion of triggers.
The trigger name is kept in a table, and apon deleting the record i want to use the field name to delete the trigger
I have the following Trigger
the error is at
DROP TRIGGER @DeleteTrigger
I'm guessing it dosen't like the trigger name being a variable instead of a static name
how do i get around this?
thanks in advance
-- ================================================
-- Template generated from Template Explorer using:
-- Create Trigger (New Menu).SQL
--
-- Use the Specify Values for Template Parameters
-- command (Ctrl-Shift-M) to fill in the parameter
-- values below.
--
-- See additional Create Trigger templates for more
-- examples of different Trigger statements.
--
-- This block of comments will not be included in
-- the definition of the function.
-- ================================================
SET ANSI_NULLS ON
GO
SET QUOTED_IDENTIFIER ON
GO
-- =============================================
-- Author: <Author,,Name>
-- Create date: <Create Date,,>
-- Description: <Description,,>
-- =============================================
CREATE TRIGGER RemoveTriggers
ON tblTriggers
AFTER DELETE
AS
BEGIN
-- SET NOCOUNT ON added to prevent extra result sets from
-- interfering with SELECT statements.
SET NOCOUNT ON;
Declare @DeleteTrigger as nvarchar(max)
select @DeleteTrigger = TableName FROM DELETED
IF OBJECT_ID (@DeleteTrigger,'TR') IS NOT NULL
DROP TRIGGER @DeleteTrigger
GO
END
GO
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Jan 23, 2008
Hi,
I have a trigger set on TABLE1 so that any update to this column should set off trigger to write to the AUDIT log table, it works fine otherwise but not the very first time when table1 has null in the column. if i comment out
and i.req_fname <> d.req_fname from the where clause then it works fine the first time too. Seems like null value of the column is messing things up
Any thoughts?
Here is my t-sql
Insert into dbo.AUDIT (audit_req, audit_new_value, audit_field, audit_user)
select i.req_guid, i.req_fname, 'req_fname', IsNull(i.req_last_update_user,@default_user) as username from inserted i, deleted d
where i.req_guid = d.req_guid
and i.req_fname <> d.req_fname
Thanks,
leo
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Sep 13, 2007
http://www.abvalve.com/careers/form/
can someone please tell me whats the problem with this?
I actually gave that user permission and and still did not work, the DB is in the appdb folder and the network services user is granted full permisions on that folder!
Any ideas
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Jan 18, 2008
every things at sql2005 have to permission
table , create , select , stored procedure
every things have to make permission to NT AUTHORITYSYSTEM
at last i do every thing without permission how can i make it without it
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Jan 27, 2008
I tru to add connection to my db in Visual Web Developer 2008 express.
Data source: - I use Microsoft SQL Server Database File (SqlClient).
Under Data File Name: I browse and choose the database and I get this error message
"ECommerceDbYou don't have permission to open this file. Contact the file owner or an administrator to obtain permission." WHat should I do? I already give full control to all users.
My environment is ms sql 2005 express and window vista business version. Thanks for any help.
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Mar 8, 2001
I have created a DTS package that get a information form a text file and insert the data into a table and package is save as Structured Storage File. Now I am calling this DTS package thru VB application. The pacakge is save under folder that is shared to everyone.
When I run the VB application it runs fine using my login. but when I login as other user(webapp) it does not work. Webapp has DBO rights to the database that importing the data.
I am not sure if this is a permission issue or not.
Thank You,
john
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Aug 20, 1999
Hi, is there a smarter way to grant permissions on a lot of tables to a user rather than accessing the "Permissions" button on the Database User's Properties?
In SQL 6.5 there is "Object Permissions" that lets me "Grant All". Isn't there a similar way to do it in SQL 7?
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Nov 12, 2004
I have a database with over 100 tables. I need to add a user with deny permission on all tables except one. Is there a way of doing this without having to enter the names of all the tables and not using EM and ticking over 100 boxes? I tried to write the script using a select from sysobjects where xtype = 'U' but it didn't like it very much!!
Any help would be greatfully appreciated.
Many thanks
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Jan 15, 2008
Hello, Can anybody explain why a new loggin with Master Database as the Default Dafault Database without any clear permission to a particular database would allow me selection in a pubs or northwind database for an example. Thanks
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Mar 4, 2004
I created a DTS package to extract data to a text file.
I want to create a login for a user who should be able ONLY to run this DTS. I don't want to give him/her any access to any database .
Is that possible?
Thanks in advance
Giorgio
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May 12, 2008
Hi
I have a user that I need to grant access to a database, he should be able to ...
* create/edit/delete tables, views and stored procedures
So I created a user and then set his default database to the one he should access, then in user_mapping for that database I have checked.
db_Datareader
db_datawriter
db_ddladmin
db_denydatareader
db_securityadmin
public
But when this user try to access the tables with Sql server management studio he get this error "The select permission was denied on the object 'extended propoerties', database 'mssqlsystemresource', schema 'sys'. Microsoft SQL Server, Error: 229)"
What do I need to change in order to get this to work?
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Jan 28, 2007
What's Defference between Control Server And SysAdmin Role
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Feb 5, 2008
hi all,
we have so many logins in sql server 2005 . i want to reduce the permissions of the users.
changing permissions to each and user is little bit difficulty .
database level : - db_writer and db_reader, and execute permissions .
i have to grant these permissions only .is there any chance to give for all users
can any one suggest the issue..
thanks
manoj
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Feb 20, 2008
Hi,
How can set select, add, delete & update permission for objects in a database for a particular user/role in SQL 2005.
In SQL 2000 I could see all the tables listed under permission so that I could give a tik for permission
regards
priw
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Aug 7, 2006
i have my sql server database set up but when i try to run my app i get this error:http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/2862/untitledep4.pngany help you be grateful :)
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Dec 16, 2006
In sql server 2005, what is minimum right a user need to view the content of stored-procedures? That is, in SSMS the user will be able to right click a stored-procedure and then select "Modify" to view the content, but the user has no permission to promote it? Thanks!
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Apr 10, 2007
iam working with http location and using sql server 2005
its getting an error as "SELECT permission denied on object UserDetails' database 'elearning', schema 'dbo'."
"UserDetails" is my table name
"elearning" is database name
i worked same project with filesystem location ,there it is working
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Apr 26, 2007
iam working with http location and using sql server 2005 its getting an error as "INSERT permission denied on object CourseDetails, database 'mydb', schema 'dbo'." "CourseDetails" is my table name "mydb" is database name i worked same project with filesystem location ,there it is working
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Aug 29, 2007
I read a few articles on best SQL practices and they kept coming back to using a Least Privileged Account. So I did so and gave that account read only permissions. The articles also said to do updates use Stored Procedures - so I created stored procedures for updating/deleting data.So here's my problem - I connect to the database using the Least Privileged Account, I use the Stored Procedures, but .NET keeps saying I lack permissions. If I GRANT the Least Privileged Account UPDATE/DELETE permission on the table, the Stored Procedures run perfectly. But isn't that EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid?My greatest concern is someone hacks my website and using the Least Privileged Account, they delete all my data using that account. So I don't want to give the Least Privileged Account the Update/Delete privileges.Thanks a MILLION in advance!
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Jan 28, 2004
Windows 2000 server, service pack 4, RAID 5 array, 2Gb RAM, SQL server 2000.
.Net framework 1.1 installed and runs happily UNTIL you try to access anything to do with data.
I've got a c# page, imported all relevent namespaces etc. This runs fine on other servers and my XP Pro machine. However, when put on this server, all I get is
Exception Details: System.UnauthorizedAccessException: Access is denied.
I've tried explictly setting permissions on the file, directory etc, but nothing I've found can get the file to work, yet other c# pages which don't use SQL connections work fine !
The offending line:
Line 31: SqlCommand sqlCmd = new SqlCommand(sql,sqlCon);
Line 32: sqlCon.Open();
Line 33: SqlDataReader datareader = sqlCmd.ExecuteReader();
Line 34: while (datareader.Read()
is line 32.
STACK TRACE:
[UnauthorizedAccessException: Access is denied.]
System.EnterpriseServices.Platform.Initialize() +497
System.EnterpriseServices.ResourcePool..ctor(TransactionEndDelegate cb) +11
System.Data.SqlClient.ConnectionPool..ctor(DefaultPoolControl ctrl) +797
System.Data.SqlClient.PoolManager.FindOrCreatePool(DefaultPoolControl ctrl) +170
System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnectionPoolManager.GetPooledConnection(SqlConnectionString options, Boolean& isInTransaction) +356
System.Data.SqlClient.SqlConnection.Open() +384
ASP.test_aspx.Page_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e) in C:Inetpubwwwrootfishfood est.aspx:32
System.Web.UI.Control.OnLoad(EventArgs e) +67
System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive() +35
System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain() +731
I've copied this directory and set up another application on another server and it works fine!
Anyone got any ideas?
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